By the time Addiction was finished, Sasha Shlain, Chemutai Sage and SocraTess had completed two songs together, while their first photograph as a trio remained somewhere in the future. Shlain, a Swiss-based composer and producer, first connected online with Kenyan singer Sage and Kenyan-American spoken-word artist SocraTess for Wildfire. The three returned for a second collaboration before sharing a studio, a rehearsal or the ordinary small talk that usually comes before people begin making things together.

They already know one another through the details that creative work exposes: how long someone lives with an idea, how readily they surrender a favourite line and how much room they leave for another voice. The handshakes can wait. For this interview, we spoke with Shlain, Sage and SocraTess about Addiction and the unusual partnership growing around it.

Hi everyone, really nice to meet you all! ‘Addiction’ is your second track and you still haven’t been in the same room. Did trusting each other feel different this time?

Sasha: Hello and thank you for taking your time to spend with us. Yes, there is a certain confidence built on the previous experience, but there is also an element of uncertainty and excitement about hearing something unexpected and inspiring.

Sage: Hey. I think because I already worked with Sasha for a while and I knew Tess and loved her work, trusting was easy for me. When you work with people you believe in and when the vision aligns, it is easy to create together in harmony. With addiction being our second song, the trust was the same for me but it still felt like a new and exciting adventure

SocraTess: This time was different. The first time, Sash and Sage approached me to feature on “Wildfire” with a pretty complete demo already and an empty section at the end. I loved the song and the lyrics so I wanted to make sure what I did matched the standard she had already set and the theme and for it to feel cohesive. I was assigned one particular section and I wrote to that, and wanted to see what the reception would be. They were so happy with it and encouraged so that made me comfortable with telling them that I had actually written something for the section that preceded it that was just instrumental that I experimented with but thought might be too crazy but when I shared that they liked that too so we kept that in for the final version.That made working together this time even better, cause we had set the precedent of being open to experimenting and giving feedback.

I’m curious about the very first step. Someone sends a rough fragment, and by the time all three of you have added something, is any of the original idea still there?

Sasha: We worked with an already-created instrumental track, but it was shaped “on the go,” as the voices brought so much new input.

Sage: Haha. Sasha is the one who sends us beautiful tracks that he is working on. After that either me or Tess give it a go. I am quite slow in responding 😂 so Tess was the initiator for Addiction. I just followed their lead. What is interesting is that Addiction has so many layers and switches so I actually got to move a bit differently while saying the same story.

SocraTess: With “Addiction”, Sasha assigned us alternating sections/ time stamps. I suggested to Sage we do something similar with the song! I thought it would be fun and feel like we worked on it together even if we were not together. My part was first so when I sat with the song, I tuned in to that idea of desire and hedonism and “addiction” came up and I wrote thefirst section. Sent it back to Sage, and it was soo cool because she came up with something that still tuned in to that same vibe but with her own interpretation and also a different POV. Sothen my challenge for the next section was to kind of vibe with that and see what that inspired but still in line with my POV. and then she did the same for the next section. I quite enjoyed it. I hope the next thing we work on she has the first verse. Better yet, I hope the next thing we work on, we could all actually be together, face to face.

How does a track actually move between you? When do you first think, “okay, this sounds like us”?

Sasha: We didn’t have a specific “us” sound in mind, but it will surely represent us at the end of the process. This song is very different from the previous one, but it definitely has our signature.

Sage: Personally because of my love for a challenge everything new sounds like me. However in thegroup dynamic it is always good for everyone to be in agreement that “This is what we work on”. For Addiction we did a back and forth demo between parts from beginning to end. Sending the new additions as they came for everyone to approve. I guess after verse 2 which was mine, we determined that it sounded like us. Everyone by then showed that they definitely understood the assignment.

SocraTess: There is this idea that when 2 people come together / relate they don’t become 1 or 2 but rather they create this third thing between them, while maintaining themselves but each is responsible for the creation of this third thing/ entity they create by relating with each other. And that third thing while it is reflective of each individual it is still different from the individuals involved. I feel that way about addiction. When I hear it, I can hear me, Sage and Sasha’s contribution and I am intimately aware that it isn’t just us per se. It is like the song of a 4th person that blends the three of us. Might be too esoteric to capture with words. But its kind of like the three of us came together and had a baby, and that baby might have someone’s eyes, or nose or ears but it is very much independent of us yet still connected and also only possible with the three of us.

Sasha, you compose and produce, so you’re there at the start and at the end. What do you hold back on, on purpose, so the others can shape it?

Sasha: I’ve tried not to overload the instrumental part with melodic material, so it will have enough creative space for Tess and Sage, especially because I know how inventive both of them are.

As a listener, I wonder about this: the music and the spoken word reach you already full of ideas. Where does your own feeling get to come in?

Sage: The feeling is always in the connection. What I love about any kind of music is the words can be there and defined but the context can be different for different people. It could be about a lover, or a drug or even a part of yourself. The music gives a nudge but what the listener feels is all up to them and where they are at.

SocraTess: For me, whenever I am writing, I have to tune in to what I am feeling. So whenever I get an instrumental, I immediately tune in to what it is inspiring in me and that is what I follow. Even sometimes when I want to write a poem a feeling, I am not feeling in the moment I want to write, I usually use music to help me tap into that feeling, so I will find the instrumental version of a song that for example kicks up the feeling I want, and use that to tap into that frequency.

Your phrasing can shift the rhythm of a whole track. Do you ever rewrite your text after hearing the voice and the production around it?

Sage: I often rewrite before laying the demo.This can happen about 3 to 5 times. By the time the demo is recorded I rarely rewrite unless given constructive feedback or if it sounds later like it doesn’t mesh well with everyone else when other parts are added.. I think over the years I have learned to trust my ear but also be open to the ears of others who I trust.

SocraTess: With addiction, when I was writing I would play the song in different contexts, so like maybe while driving, or shopping and see if my brain was getting stuck somewhere when I would hear the song or if I thought of a different word that could flow better, or an adlib that I randomly did while cleaning and listening to it and then remind myself to go add that to the demo/ or at least remember to add it when I did the actual studio recording.Even now that the song is out – I still think oooo, I should’ve added this melody here. Or said this word instead. Haha, i just feel like with something creative you never feel like it is ever complete.

Working online means you decide what the others get to hear. How rough or unsure can something be before you’d rather not send it?

Sasha: Well, I’ve never had this kind of problem, as I never present something definitive — I can always adjust and adapt, so no, no doubts here. Trust your partners 😉

Sage: I think because I work online more often now as a songwriter, I have become more and more open to the idea of sharing weird demos. Although Sasha will tell you I can be quite scared but once it’s sent, it’s sent. I think the first idea is always the hardest to share because you never know what direction the others assumed you would take.

SocraTess: Building off the previous question, when I found a direction or idea for my section and recorded it I record and send i immediately back to Sage and Sasha because, the trust is there and in my mind we are just trying different things at first. Which is great cause we don’t have to send something perfect at that stage. But the thing is if they like that rough draft, and I spend the next week listening to it and I get a different idea, sometimes I don’t get to change it, or if I do and they like the original version better then I kinda have to stick it with it because then at that point, it is no longer just up to me. It is a 4th baby so everyone has to have input on which school to send the baby , haha. I guess an easy solution would be for me to record and sit with it a bit longer to see if I change my mind about something but normally, I am so excited about it and want to share and get feedback on it.

Two projects in, you must know each other’s taste pretty well. Who has actually changed yours?

Sasha: In my case, it would be more Tess than Sage, as I’ve never worked with a spoken word artist before, and I was very surprised by how the way of speaking, or just a specific way of phrasing, can impact the whole vibe of the piece.

Sage: I don’t want to be that confident but I think doing the two projects together definitely has opened my eyes to what both Tess and Sasha lean into. However, I am a believer in the fact that people will always surprise you. So i am looking forward to diving deeper and getting to know their creation styles even more. I believe they have both changed mine immensely. Working together has forced me out of my comfort zone and into a beautiful yet intimidating environment which has pushed me to explore and to grow.

SocraTess: I have known Sage as an artist for a while, so I have always admired the depth she has in her lyrics, I feel like they could stand alone as a poem without music behind them. She is also a great story teller in her songs. I also really enjoy her harmonies.

With Sasha, his music on it own takes you on a journey. It has a lot of intricate pieces and it changes from section to section, sometimes it doesn’t follow the same music formula of like okay 16 count here then chorus and the beat staying the same all the way through.

So it is, really fun and challenging to do that complexity justice when you write to it.

Sasha, you’ve lived in several countries. Was there a place that changed how you listen to someone else’s ideas?

Sasha: Great question! Definitely, Israel is the place. There is an atmosphere of a musical universe representing so many different cultures, and if you are not open to listening with an open mind, you will be very lonely 😉

Last one: meeting in person will change how you work together. What do you want to make first once you’re all in one room?

Sasha: It has to be a studio, booked for a week or two. Hope it will happen in the not-so-distant future.

Sage: A warm beverage to sit down and catch up. I think our strength as a team is in understanding each other and being curious about each other. From then I know flowing musically will come so naturally. Tess and Sasha have been lucky to see each other in person but you know, I think all three of us in the same room will be such an overwhelming feeling for me. So I will need that chat before work begins.

SocraTess: If we work together in person, we are definitely playing around with harmonies. I would also like to write lyrics and work on an instrumental together. Sasha also has great ideas for things we could do in the studio before we go, but it would be nice to actually record live, and have his input in real-time.